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RE: Din Mounted Mains Relays for lighting control verses AD10s


  • To: ukha_d@xxxxxxx
  • Subject: RE: Din Mounted Mains Relays for lighting control verses AD10s
  • From: Mike Griffiths <mike@xxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:34:26 -0000
  • Delivered-to: mailing list ukha_d@xxxxxxx
  • Mailing-list: list ukha_d@xxxxxxx; contact ukha_d-owner@xxxxxxx
  • Reply-to: ukha_d@xxxxxxx

Title: Message
chris
I don't really have  the problem as the windows are small in my old house 
so if we are at home the lights are on
Upstairs is delt with via pressure mats on the stairs and logic of whose gone to bed etc
 
If the sun does wack into the room I have light sensors which trigger over a certain level and dimm the lights off
All this is done with HomeVision though not Comfort
 
I have left switches in the guest bed room for the reasons you stated earlier
 
but the bathroom lights are all via PIR
 
 
mike
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Langridge [mailto:chrisl@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Sun 25 Nov 01 18:33
To: 'ukha_d@xxxxxxx'
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Din Mounted Mains Relays for lighting control verses AD10s

So if you have no manual switches  how do you turn the lights on in the lounge? Via PIR maybee? If so how does your system know when you need say, task lighting verses ambient lighting?
-----Original Message-----
From: steve [mailto:steve@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 25 November 2001 15:17
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxxSubject: Re: [ukha_d] Din Mounted Mains Relays for lighting control verses AD10s

Just to say i dont have any remote control. I dont have a pronto. Remote control isnt for me, its just an extension of a switch and i can get up to do that.
 
My system has enough 'intellegence' to know whoever gets up for a piss in the night they need the lights on! Yes feed back does use up inputs but i dont do that. The inputs are used to allow the system to monitor as many environmental variables  to allow the system to make desicions, the system having full control of a light requires no feedback,no remote control (although i can do it and via phone) and no manual switches.
 
I tried X10 - wasnt as reliable as relays or cheap enough for me. Dont understand you sentance about relays. If my vb code turns an output OFF the relays goes OFF the lamp goes OFF period it isnt going on. The output state can be read you KNOW the state. Its when you add your two way manual control you screw things up.
 
Everyone has thier own ideals and aims.. We also have differing budgets.
 
But what you will get here is lots of helpful advice and wonderful ideas
 
Steve
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 2:53 PM
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Din Mounted Mains Relays for lighting control verses AD10s

Thanks to Steve, Simon, Alan and Mike.
 
I can now see the biggest issue with mains relays is 'State'. I apreciate that an additional relay across the lamp can feed the state back to Comfort/HV. But then one has three further complications:
 
More ports being used up
More code needs to be written to 'monitor' everything
More wires need to be run back to Node Zero
 
I don't see though, how  with x-10 Comfort/HV would know the state if one is also using mometary switches for manual operation anyway. Have I missed something critical about X-10???
 
It almost seems irrelevant mind you. Comfort/HV can ignoe the state and just send the apropriate X-10 command which tells the device to go ON or OFF or DIM. So for example, if I leave the house and want all the light off, where as with relays the HA Controller would just dumbly trigger all the relays and risk turning some lights on instead of off, X-10 will send the 'OFF' command and be done with it.
 
My philosphy for HA is that if I fall down a deep well, then my family needs to be able to run the system without taking a course in VB. Guests need to be able to operate switches by the door - rather than having to learn to use a pronto (might be important if they need to take a leak in the middle of the night). So everything needs a manual overide, and the whole shebang needs to be simple. Seems that this simplicity is available if you don't mind spending £40 for every 'appliance/lighting circuit'
 
Comments?
 
Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: steve [mailto:steve@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 25 November 2001 10:36
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxxSubject: Re: [ukha_d] Din Mounted Mains Relays for lighting control verses AD10s

You can add an additional mains coil relay accross the lamp using the contacts to an input to give you state.
 
As i want complete automation i went the route of avoiding manual control using my own pcb mounted relays for cheapness. In a kitchen make over i parralleled the oringinal switch this leaves manual control in case of failure but totally automated the under unit lights and cooker hood lights.
 
I am in the process of doing another room again this will have multiple lights but one set will have a manual control in a cupboard, so no light switches visable at all.
 
All done with comfort, relays, pc & vb code. After initally burning my main comfort pcb the relays have 100% reliabily operated around 8 lights for three months. No sleepy x10 modules.
 
I now find myself walking into areas i plan to automate and wonder why the lights havent come on!
 
Approx costs per light X10 40 quid, CBUS higher, Relays 1.50
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Alancc
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: [ukha_d] Din Mounted Mains Relays for lighting control verses AD10s

Chris, if you wire them as two way switches then how will Comfort know what state they are in?
Does Comfort not have input ports like Homevision, if so the override switches could be connected to the ports then Comfort can instruct the relays and track the status.
Not being a Comfort fan I don't know its full capabilities.
 
Alancc
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2001 11:40 PM
Subject: RE: [ukha_d] Din Mounted Mains Relays for lighting control verses AD10s

Andrew,
 
Thanks for this. I figure the override needs to be achieved by wiring the relays (which are controlled by comfort only) with standard wall mounted rocksers as if they were all 2 way circuits. Does that make sense?
 
chris
-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Richards [mailto:andrew.richards@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 24 November 2001 20:05
To: ukha_d@xxxxxxxSubject: RE: [ukha_d] Din Mounted Mains Relays for lighting control verses AD10s

Chris
 
I'm about to embark on a large HA project and I'm not touching X10 - just seems too unreliable and expensive (plus I'm on 3-phase).  
 
Like you, I aim to use DIN mounted relays.  But I'm going to switch them using 12v or 24v signals from industrial control cards mounted in a dedicated PC - so not quite your config.  The main problem I can see with your direct switching of the relays (I assume?) is being able to override them >from

Best regards

Andrew


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Langridge [mailto:chrisl@xxxxxxx]
Sent: 24 November 2001 18:24
To: 'ukha_d@xxxxxxx'
Subject: [ukha_d] Din Mounted Mains Relays for lighting control verses AD10s

I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I'd apreciate to hear a fresh round of debate on this point. I'm doing a complete rewire on the house - so there's two choices for control of lighting: X-10 or Mains relays. Either way we're gonna use a star pattern as this provides maximum longterm flexibility.
 
I figured LD11's are hard to beat for their versatility, but for switching fluorescents, or applicances why spend £40 on an AD10 when I can have DIN mounted relays for under a tenner? Of course a mains relay like this will need to be CAT fived back to the HA interface, but aren't relays more reliable than X-10 anyway?
 
So here are my three questions:
 
1. All things being equal in a star wiring pattern - would you go for DIN mounted relays or AD10s?
 
2. Are there any obvious gotchas when hooking up manual (rocker type) wall switches for local control if I go for the DIN mounted relay option? Suppose for example I need two way control for the lights on the stairs?
 
3. My consumer unit and DIN rails are all in the boiler room next to all the HVAC stuff. The boiler room is also very well sittuated for running wires almost anywhere. However, Node Zero (Comfort, AV gear, Data Hub, Telephony etc) is in a large cupboard in the centre of the house. Given that I first need to make the choice between AD10's verses DIN mounted mains relays - is there any particular advantage to having Comfort located close to the DIN rails in the boiler room rather than in Node Zero.
 
Thanks for your help
 
Chris


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